I don't agree with her that the film fails to comment on its own premises and its own inevitable reinforcement of some of the same constrictions it's revealing. IMO the casting of Winona Ryder as the displaced older ballerina is, in itself, a strong sign of meta-critique on the part of the filmmakers. If there's any modern actress who's been chewed up and spit out and become self-destructive in the face of insoluble pressures... especially since Ryder is getting roles as an older woman now, despite the fact that she in no way looks old enough to be, eg, Spock's mom: she's someone we're being told is becoming too old to engage the audience's sympathy as a lead, despite all visual evidence to the contrary.
Also, the scene between Lily and Nina is filmed very very firmly from Nina's point of view, rather than pulling back to thrill the audience with shots of Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis kissing. You only have to compare it with a similar scene in Jennifer's Body to see how much the Black Swan scene tries to avoid exploitation.
I'm puzzled that your friend thought the entanglement between Lily and Nina was supposed to 'set up' Nina's 'real' passion for the director. The fact that Nina comes off her Black Swan dance and kisses the director-- to me, that's a literal kiss-off, a total 'fuck you' to his manipulations.
She got in touch with her sensuality through her fantasy about Lily. While she gets distressed by it because of her own damage, I think Nina's attraction to Lily is portrayed as authentic while her connection with the director is showed to be hollow, made explicit when he calls her 'my little princess' at the end, the nickname he used with Beth, treating Nina as an interchangeable doll. Meanwhile Nina shows no sign of giving a shit about his approval, absorbed in the roar of the crowd.
But it just shows how different film interpretation can be. I wouldn't have described the movie as psychological horror. Psychological, sure, maybe a psychological thriller. But despite horrific imagery at points, I didn't think of it as horror.
Maybe because I didn't take the ending as literal. Earlier we saw Nina tear her finger up and then it was revealed she didn't really harm herself, and somehow I don't think Beth really stabbed herself in the face. I loved that the filmmakers didn't pull back to reveal Nina getting up to receive her accolades, but chose to show the emotional truth rather than a literal truth.
Still I don't believe we were supposed to think she literally stabbed herself and died at the end. I thought the ending meant that Nina came to understand that her world would only see perfection in her total self-abnegation. After all, she says it was perfect, but the performance hadn't technically been perfect, since her partner dropped her. What was perfect was that she fulfilled the emotional self-destruction her world demanded. And while her achievement was real-- losing herself in the role(s) was a towering feat for her as an artist-- since the roles themselves are poisonous for what they demand of women, the achievement brings her as much emotional destruction as joy.
Sorry to rant at you! I guess I had Thoughts about that movie. I thought it was as truthful a film as could be made with those themes under the circumstances of its making. IMO, no film could comment on those issues without also buying into them to some degree and still get made in Hollywood. As the film itself has it, literal perfection is impossible, but emotionally, for me at least, I thought the film came about as close as it could come.
TL;DR, huge spoilers for Black Swan
I don't agree with her that the film fails to comment on its own premises and its own inevitable reinforcement of some of the same constrictions it's revealing. IMO the casting of Winona Ryder as the displaced older ballerina is, in itself, a strong sign of meta-critique on the part of the filmmakers. If there's any modern actress who's been chewed up and spit out and become self-destructive in the face of insoluble pressures... especially since Ryder is getting roles as an older woman now, despite the fact that she in no way looks old enough to be, eg, Spock's mom: she's someone we're being told is becoming too old to engage the audience's sympathy as a lead, despite all visual evidence to the contrary.
Also, the scene between Lily and Nina is filmed very very firmly from Nina's point of view, rather than pulling back to thrill the audience with shots of Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis kissing. You only have to compare it with a similar scene in Jennifer's Body to see how much the Black Swan scene tries to avoid exploitation.
I'm puzzled that your friend thought the entanglement between Lily and Nina was supposed to 'set up' Nina's 'real' passion for the director. The fact that Nina comes off her Black Swan dance and kisses the director-- to me, that's a literal kiss-off, a total 'fuck you' to his manipulations.
She got in touch with her sensuality through her fantasy about Lily. While she gets distressed by it because of her own damage, I think Nina's attraction to Lily is portrayed as authentic while her connection with the director is showed to be hollow, made explicit when he calls her 'my little princess' at the end, the nickname he used with Beth, treating Nina as an interchangeable doll. Meanwhile Nina shows no sign of giving a shit about his approval, absorbed in the roar of the crowd.
But it just shows how different film interpretation can be. I wouldn't have described the movie as psychological horror. Psychological, sure, maybe a psychological thriller. But despite horrific imagery at points, I didn't think of it as horror.
Maybe because I didn't take the ending as literal. Earlier we saw Nina tear her finger up and then it was revealed she didn't really harm herself, and somehow I don't think Beth really stabbed herself in the face. I loved that the filmmakers didn't pull back to reveal Nina getting up to receive her accolades, but chose to show the emotional truth rather than a literal truth.
Still I don't believe we were supposed to think she literally stabbed herself and died at the end. I thought the ending meant that Nina came to understand that her world would only see perfection in her total self-abnegation. After all, she says it was perfect, but the performance hadn't technically been perfect, since her partner dropped her. What was perfect was that she fulfilled the emotional self-destruction her world demanded. And while her achievement was real-- losing herself in the role(s) was a towering feat for her as an artist-- since the roles themselves are poisonous for what they demand of women, the achievement brings her as much emotional destruction as joy.
Sorry to rant at you! I guess I had Thoughts about that movie. I thought it was as truthful a film as could be made with those themes under the circumstances of its making. IMO, no film could comment on those issues without also buying into them to some degree and still get made in Hollywood. As the film itself has it, literal perfection is impossible, but emotionally, for me at least, I thought the film came about as close as it could come.