sophinisba | LJ and fanfic

Here is a new meme also inspired partly by this post by

elanorgardner and partly by some other stuff. It's about writing, posting, reading, and commenting on fanfic on LiveJournal. I am even more long-winded in this post than in the previous one! (It probably would have been better if I'd put this time and energy into writing about ~~naked~~ Frodo!) Also, I tried my best to stick with "This is what I do" but veered a little into "This is what I would like to see more of" and even "This is how I think things should be." I hope I don't offend anyone, and please feel free to share wildly divergent opinions in comments or in your own version of the meme if you decide to take it up.

1. Why do you write fanfic? Who are you writing for?
I agree with Elanor and others who've said that writing "just for the feedback" is not a good idea. The feedback will never be as much as one would like and that can be frustrating and disappointing. On the other hand, phrases like "I write for myself" or "I write because I must" or "I write because I'm driven to write" don't really work for me either. I enjoy writing but I don't often feel driven to write. It's great that some people do, but I wouldn't get many fics done if I depended on that feeling all the time.

claudia603 said something similar to "write for yourself" that resonated more with me: "I firmly believe that a person is happiest while writing the kind of story that she would like to read." I don't enjoy reading my own fics as much as I enjoy reading other people's, but I do, for example, write about the characters and scenarios and themes I like in the hope that I can make a connection with someone else who has similar tastes, and maybe encourage them to write more of that kind of thing as well.

Hearing back from readers is a big part of the reason I work on finishing things to post them. I don't think in terms of writing what's popular in The Fandom at Large, but I do think a lot about what people I'm friends with would like to see. Writing with one specific reader in mind is often really helpful for me, especially if they've given me a request. It gives me a direction to go in when my own ideas are diffuse. Once I post, I can feel satisfied if I've made that person happy, even if I don't get a lot of comments from others.

2. Do you always have your fic betaed before you post?
No, not always. I'm more likely to if I'm writing for a challenge or a fic community and if I'm writing about hobbits, where I know my regular beta readers will probably enjoy looking something over. In general if it's a fic I care about more then it's more important to me to have someone else's suggestions, and I'm also likely to need more hand-holding to get me to post. :)

I also use betas less now than I did at first, partly because I've gained confidence and partly because (I hope) I've gotten better at correcting my own mistakes. In my first few stories

lilybaggins had to talk to me over and over about commas going inside the quotation marks. I have a stronger idea now of how I like to do things, which Rules I want to follow and which I choose to ignore. I know that I still make mistakes and there are still a lot of things that I could improve about my writing, but sometimes it's more important to me just to get the thing posted.

I am a reader with strong feelings about grammar and punctuation, but I don't tend to notice a strong correlation between whether a fic is betaed and whether it satisfies me in that way. Some writers know exactly what they're doing and do things the way I like, even without a beta reader. Others have beta readers who share their opinions about commas, which are very different from mine and make the fic difficult for me to read.

I hope this comment doesn't seem anti-beta! Betas are awesome! Check out this great post

schemingreader just made about some of the things betas do.

3. Do you post works in progress?
Ack! I change my mind about this a lot! It is one of the few areas where I've actually made Rules for myself, but then I go back and break them. :) But if I decide not to post a WIP, that is usually for selfish reasons (I need to be certain of where things are going first, or I'm afraid of losing momentum if I get disappointed by the reception). As with the beta thing, if I care about a fic a lot then I'm more likely to try to finish the whole thing before I post any of it.

As a reader, I love it when people post WIPs. I like following along and commenting and speculating. Also, I'm generally in favor of having more fanfic out in the world. Some of my favorite reads ever are unfinished or abandoned stories. I am really glad those authors decided to post what they had even though they weren't finished. Now I will tell you a secret: I tend to enjoy resolutions and endings less than the angsty and seemingly hopeless parts in the middle of a fic. Sometimes I stick with a fic for tens of thousands of words and then lose interest just before the end. This must be very lame for the authors because it means I either left fb on early chapters and then dropped out, or that I didn't leave any fb at all (especially if I read it at their website). I'm sorry for this.

Some people get real satisfaction out of a tight plot and a smart resolution to a story and very disappointed when a writer doesn't finish a WIP. I can understand that too, even though it's not as big a thing for me. I really regret that when I started posting my first multipart fic I said things like "I will finish it, I promise!" Why did I think I could promise something like that when I hadn't finished it already? I have a less guilt (though still some) about other fics I've abandoned because I didn't make any promises with them, and most people realize there are no guarantees when they start reading a WIP, especially one by an untrustworthy person like me. If they prefer to read only finished fics, that is cool, but I don't think that preference by some readers should keep people from posting.

4. Do social relationships with other writers influence whether you read and give feedback?
Yes, they influence what I read. I often read fics by people I haven't had any personal contact with, especially in other fandoms. This experience reminds me of my lurker days and can be very pleasant. I'm not a lurker anymore so if I'm reading on LJ I almost always leave a short comment and if it's a website, eh, I will probably send them an e-mail at some point (more on my love of LJ comments below).

But if I'm friends with someone then yes, that makes me more likely to read their new fic. It also sometimes makes me more likely to enjoy the fics, since I recognize their love for the characters and their kinks and their familiar turns of phrase. What's very difficult for me is to read fic by someone that I've had negative experiences with. (It is just too difficult to concentrate on what she's saying about Frodo when I'm thinking of that thing she said about my friend!) I always try to be honest about what I like, and I don't think someone being unpopular would keep me from leaving feedback on a fic I've enjoyed. But I do admit that someone's personality can keep me from enjoying the fic or wanting to read it in the first place.

5. Do you like LiveJournal as a place to post fic?
Why yes, I love it!

I like that LJ is so flexible and easy to edit. I like that a basic account is free. I like that people can customize their LJs to look the way they want, but if I don't want to look at the big pictures or the fancy lettering I can zap it with a style=mine to make the fic easier to read. I like having the date of when a story was posted so, if I'm reading a lot of fics by the same person, I can see how her work has changed over time. I think an f-list is a great way of keeping up with people's new writing. Putting up a fic on LJ so that anyone who wants to can see it is a lot more comfortable for me than sending out an e-mail announcing that I have something new.

I've also noticed, going through and fixing broken links at

lotr_fic_recs and other places, that LJ links tend to remain stable while places like fanfiction.net change their organization systems and other websites and archives disappear altogether. When somebody posts on LJ, the entry usually stays there unless/until she makes decides to lock or delete it.

I've only been writing fanfic for two years and LJ is the only place I've ever posted it, so I can't compare it to other formats. I understand that some people would prefer to get all the fic in one place rather than have it mixed in with people's other posts, and I can see where they're coming from on this. I suppose if everyone kept separate fic and personal journals one could have a separate reading filter or f-list just for fics. It would also be nice if more of us posted to fic communities. This is just not a big priority for me so I haven't strongly considered setting up a fic journal myself. Do you think I should? Do you think I should try to get posting access at west-of-the-moon.net?

6. Do you like LiveJournal comments as a form of feedback for fic?
Again, yes! Very much so!

I like that leaving comments on LJ is so easy. I know some people say that sending an e-mail is just as easy, but I am just not comfortable sending an e-mail to say "I really liked this!" whereas I frequently leave that as an LJ comment. In an e-mail I feel pressure to put in salutations and other little formalities of a letter and to have something substantial to say about the fic. You might think I should feel pressure to say something substantial about the fic, but... well, I disagree. (We can talk about it in comments if you want!) :D

Reading other people's comments on a fic often helps me appreciate the fic more. Once in a while I'll respond to another reader's comment if I have a similar feeling or just as a way of saying hello to two people at once, but I wished this happened more. Sometimes it's nice to see who's reading a fic. If I notice that something doesn't have a lot of comments from people I know but I think they would like it, that might make me want to rec it.

Public comments are also a nice way of seeing how the author interacts with her readers and get clues as to what kind of comments are wanted. If I notice that a writer is really enthusiastic in her replies to comments, I might put more effort into my feedback and I'll be more willing to put myself out there by talking about what I liked. Important: I am not saying there's anything wrong with short or formulaic responses!! I don't even get upset (anymore, heh) if they don't respond at all, but it's good to have an idea of how that's gonna be before I comment.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

*reads and contemplates*

I never tire of hearing what folks think about as they're planning, writing, posting, or reading fanfic. :)

I would love to read your thoughts!

I love to read about how a writer sees her process, and what the rewards of writing mean to her. Several of your points about Lj resonate with me, in that I like the ease of using it, and the accessability it promotes between writer and reader. That give and take in comments can be so rewarding.

Me neither, I love talking about this stuff. It was fun to write out this post.

Wow, this is a great meme. I personally don't understand how you can hang out in the angsty middle of a fic; for me, that is the most dreadful part! :D I must push on to the end. I can't tell you how many nights I have read a story, literally holding one eye open so that I can can keep reading. Oh, the trials of having a J in your Myers-Briggs profile. :D

Yes, I was thinking of you when I said the part about how some people love their tight plots. Me, I suffer through the suspense in the middle but it's, I don't know, a kind of suffering that I like. Then once I can see that everyone's going to be okay my attention sometimes starts to wander. Of course I still like it when people finish things and I'm happy for them (I know how hard it is because I usually fail at it!) but it is not always the most satisfying part for me to read.

I hope more people will take up the meme!

Yes, like I was saying in my previous post, seeing the way readers and writers interact in LJ comments made a big impression on me when I started reading here. It made it seem a lot easier for me to become part of the community, feedbacking and writing, rather than just hanging out on webpages and reading.

I just don't have time currently to post or even comment extensively, but I wanted to let you know that I enjoyed your contemplation about writing fics. I feel very lucky to have this specific community to provide me with good fiction!

I need to read this again, like I said before, lol! But not when I have to get ready for work in 10 minutes. :-( Hopefully I'll have time later this afternoon! This is a really interesting meme and I might do it, toO! :-)

I don't enjoy reading my own fics as much as I enjoy reading other people's, but I do, for example, write about the characters and scenarios and themes I like in the hope that I can make a connection with someone else who has similar tastes, and maybe encourage them to write more of that kind of thing as well.

You know, if other people always wrote *exactly* the sorts of fics I love to read, and posted a *lot* of them, I'd probably never write them myself--I wouldn't have time, for one thing--I'd be too busy reading! But when I can't find what I want, why then I write it myself.

Reading other people's comments on a fic often helps me appreciate the fic more.

I love reading other people's comments and reviews, and the writer's responses, almost as much as reading the fics...

I'm going to have to try this meme, too.

The thing is, I don't really have any deathless conclusions. I think these are good concepts to contemplate, generally, and that your answers are interesting.

Ah, okay, I know that feeling very well. Thanks for reading and contemplating. :)

It took me a really long time to put together but I think I'm glad I posted it. I've loved talking to you about all this stuff over the years and I'd love it if you wrote some more on the subject. Hope you're having a good day!

Ahah and I see you've posted. There I go trying to answer comments before looking at my f-list. :P

LOL! :D

I like that leaving comments on LJ is so easy. I know some people say that sending an e-mail is just as easy, but I am just not comfortable sending an e-mail to say "I really liked this!" whereas I frequently leave that as an LJ comment.

I totally agree! Even while reviewing on an archive I feel like a bit of an idiot just for saying "I enjoyed this!" But on LJ it's easier...maybe because there of the community feel. Maybe just because someone is using a cheerful icon! I don't know, but I definitely agree with you :)

You know, if other people always wrote *exactly* the sorts of fics I love to read, and posted a *lot* of them, I'd probably never write them myself--I wouldn't have time, for one thing--I'd be too busy reading! But when I can't find what I want, why then I write it myself.

Yes, there is that, and for me it also goes in phases -- there are times when all I want to do is read, but there are times when I can't concentrate on other people's fics and I just want to write. Also there are a lot of kinds of fics that I love reading but don't even try to write myself (um, very explicit rps comes to mind, but certain kinds of h/c too, lots of different stuff) and there I'm just very grateful that other people are willing to share what they've done.

I'm glad that you did these memes too!

Hee, the times I've sent an e-mail I think I spend as much time explaining what I'm doing there as commenting on the fic. It's especially awkward if I don't know the person so I'm less ready to share how I felt about the story. Dear So-and-so, this is just a quick note to let you know that I read your story *** today and I really liked it! I found your e-mail address at ..."

Blah blah blah! I really prefer Lj!

Oh, I am a comma Nazi, aren't I? :)

I know that I still make mistakes and there are still a lot of things that I could improve about my writing, but sometimes it's more important to me just to get the thing posted.

That's the utter truth of it, though. The fact is, ALL writing can be improved on, no matter who wrote it. Something can always be improved on. Heck, even Tolkien could have improved on parts of his work. I think the thing is knowing when it's good enough, and when it has to be let go. Otherwise, none of us would ever get a thing posted!

It is so strange to me now that I didn't know that about commas at the time I started writing fic, especially considering how uptight I am (now) about other people's commas! You were absolutely adorable and very gentle as a beta reader. I thought it would be really scary to get comments back but you made it fun.

I still think betaing is a great thing to do but it just doesn't feel as necessary to me now as it did at first. It's a good thing but then so is getting the fic out there, and I have different goals and priorities with different fics.

Awww, I'm glad I did okay as a beta---I admit I haven't done it too much in fandom! Most of my editing has been for professional things---and those people aren't nearly as touchy, as a whole, as fanfic writers are! We're a lot of very sensitive people. :)

LJ and fanfic

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