sophinisba | vague idea for a fic community

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vague idea for a fic community

I've been toying with the idea of setting up an LJ community for giving and getting constructive feedback on hobbit fics, and I'd like to, well, get some constructive feedback from you all on the idea. The general idea would be something like a writers' workshop -- mind you, not the lame kind of writers' workshop where people try to shoot each other down, but the cool kind where people are genuinely interested in helping each other improve as writers.

I'm not dead set on the idea by any means. I realize there are a lot of ways it could turn ugly and people's feelings could get hurt. The main strategy I've come up with so far for avoiding unpleasantness is "The mod would pay really close attention", but honestly I don't know if I want to take on that kind of commitment or those kinds of conflicts. Anyway, fanfic is something we do for fun, and maybe it would be better to stick to the positive feedback most of us give each other on our fic journals, or suggestions made by the beta reader and in occasional e-mails. I really believe that the main way we get better at writing is by writing (a lot); and I think the kind of negative feedback that inhibits creativity and keeps us from writing (a lot) is really not helpful.

Still, it could be nice to get honest reactions and suggestions from other writers and readers, especially if there's, I don't know, a fic that we're just not satisfied with, or a certain goal we're not sure if we're reaching (does the dialogue work? was the surprise a surprise? is the sex scene sexy?). It would be like the beta process, only with more people, and maybe the other people watching could learn something about the process of writing and revising as well.

By the way, I do realize that

lotrfic_crit exists. What I'm envisioning would be different in that it would focus more on hobbits than Elves, and we would only review fics posted to the community by their authors. (There would be no snarking or ranting about random badfic on ff.net.) If you think hijacking that community (say, posting a whole bunch of good quality fics about hobbits there) would be a better strategy than starting up a new one, please say so. And please let me know if there's another community that already does what I want.

Honestly, in general, what do you think? Would you play? Do you have suggestions for keeping it truly constructive and helpful? Do you think people who want concrit would be better off just saying so wherever they already post? Do you think the hobbit writing community is too closely knit and public concrit would create serious conflicts between friends? Would you like to co-mod with me?

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I will probably second Mariole. I'd join, but I've already got so little spare time that I probably should spend it actually writing (or else I'll never improve, lol)! Still, it's a great idea, I think.

Yes, writing should definitely be a higher priority than finding out what people think is wrong with your writing. Heck, maybe I should put my time into writing too rather than try to figure this out. >:( Thanks for your support anyway. *hugs*

Well, I dunno, I am frankly surprised that people write at all anymore, what with all the criticism out there abounding---I say this having just gone to the community Lora spoke of (not hers, but the other) and being astounded at how others' stories are picked apart WITHOUT their permission, so to speak. ASKING for a critique---as would happen with your community--is entirely different, of course. That's entirely understandable.

But I do sometimes think there are far too many naysayers and critiquers out there who are NOT asked their opinions.

I think their idea over at that comm is that anything posted publicly on the internet is fair game for critique (ripping apart), but I really don't see how that kind of ranting encourages anybody to improve as a writer. Criticism in any comm I set up would be strictly consensual, LOL.

I don't know, there are communities and subcommunities where people are quite severe and others where I think we could do with a good deal more concrit. I've never had anyone other than beta readers tell me how to make my stories better (apart from typos, and only one or two people have done that for me), and I really do think there are a lot of areas where I could improve. But it's also true that I don't beg for concrit when I post fics because, well, I'm fearful! I was just thinking that a comm designed specifically for that could make it easier to take. I'm still not at all sure.

I've never used beta readers except maybe once... maybe that's why I'm not really into these sorts of communities. It's not that I think I'm a great writer who never makes mistakes (mercy, I wish!) or anything, but perhaps I look at my own fanfic writing as too much of a hobby and I don't want to be bogged down with critique and suggestions.

It's probably related to the fact that I worked as a writer and constantly had everything I wrote critiqued/edited/changed/commented on, etc. And so now, it's too much work to me to worry that much about a particular fanfic. It's laziness, pure and simple. Laziness, I admit. Not that I don't do research before fics---I do a LOT of research. But I guess I'm lazy about sending things to beta and such.

I admit, posting fics publicly definitely is opening up the floodgates for critique, and I can't complain if someone does shoot down a story of mine. On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily inspire me to write more... which may be a good thing... ;D

Yeah, we're all coming from different places on it. A beta reader is actually really helpful for me for reassurance before I post, and I find it especially helpful if they suggest a few changes because that tells me they were really paying attention and we both care about making it good. Actually the most fun I've ever had with a beta job is still that first fic that I sent you. I loved that you had so many ideas and wanted to share them with me, and then I ended up adding a lot to the fic. I guess if I don't have somebody saying, "Okay, it's ready now, go ahead and post" then I'm a lot less confident. But since I continue to lack confidence, I still sometimes get this feeling that, oh, people are saying nice things in comments because that's what's done, but if only I could find out there real feelings the story could be a whole lot better. But I might not really want that. As Carole says, a lot of people say (and probably honestly believe) they want honest feedback but then when they have to read something harsh it's upsetting.

But fanfic is a hobby and a way of having fun for me too and it does make me nervous whenever somebody starts talking about what all Serious writers must do.

I'm just starting a summer job as a writing consultant helping out undergraduate students in our department with their course papers. And I'm really pleased with some of the materials I'm reading about how our job is not to make the paper conform to a certain standard or get a better grade. It's about identifying what the student's trying to communicate and the goals she wants to meet, and then working with her to achieve that. I do think it would be cool to try for something like that in a fic community. But it could well be a pipe dream. :)

I agree! I think people are WAY too eager, like sharks, for an opportunity to rip something into shreds with an eager audience. No point to that except mental masturbation, I guess, and I know if someone did that to me, I'd not find it helpful at all, even if there were little truths in it, because of the intent. I would know that the criticism is NOT coming from a desire to make my writing better but to smack me down.

I think that's partly a function of doing it with so much remove though. I mean, if it's just some person you've never heard of at ff.net there's a real temptation to forget that they have feelings too. And to be honest it's not at all likely those writers will ever come across the community page, but then again that makes me think, what's the point?

People in that comm are much more polite and helpful on the rare occasions when somebody actually does ask for a critique. In this post people are giving really concrete suggestions for improving the fic, and they're not coddling her but they also aren't mocking or being confrontational. I think it makes a huge difference that they know she's there reading the comments.

I would like to think we could trust each other as hobbit fans! I find us to be a very pleasant group of people! *frets*

Yep, that's it exactly. It's happened to me and it's an awful feeling. I do realize that fic posted publicly is vulnerable in that way, and that if I'm choosing to put it out there, I have to take the good with the bad. However...

I'm not even certain that targeting specific fics is the main thing that kills my own writing muses---sometimes just reading about the problem with certain genres or writing styles or canon-murdering makes me never want to pick up my keyboard again. For example, a ten-page expose on why Frodo and Aragorn would never work as a couple would NOT give me the urge to write. Likewise, nitpicking on every single thing in a story and whether it's canon or not---that drives me crazy sometimes.

I admit, knowing canon makes a story better, even if the story is far off-the-wall AU. But nitpicking a story because it has fir trees in it and fir trees could not have existed in Europe at that time is just ridiculous. Just using that as an example... I have no idea about fir trees!

Oh, I know, I've talked to Claudia about it more but I read some anti-interspecies stuff just a short time after I found out about fanfic that really kept me away for a ridiculously long time, and also some mocking of people who don't know their canon well enough that really inhibits me to this day. Now I know some people might think it's just as well if people as sensitive (or lacking in knowledge of canon) decide not to be active in fandom, but I think discouraging other people from writing in general is just not a good plan. After all, don't we all want more fic about hobbits (and rangers)?

And I so agree about the fir trees omg! I mean, I guess I understand that it's a big priority for some people but for me it's just not! I want to write something that people will enjoy reading and that will help us think about the characters some more. I know some people really enjoy the nitpicking about canon but it's just not as interesting to me.

O, nothing that irritates me MORE than hearing someone's diatribe about why a particular pairing doesn't work. Honestly? I'd much rather hear an essay on why a pairing DOES work. Make me believe. But don't take it too seriously. Not that I need an essay if I find a pairing or a story hot. Nobody needs to defend a pairing based on canon for me to buy it. If Frodo wants to go off wiht Bill Ferny, then so be it. If the story is good enough, I shall believe.

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