friending on lj

[sophinisba]

Benvenuta janira11! Ho visto i tuoi comentari in diversi conti che noi due citiamo e sembri una ragazza simpatica e intelligente. Spero che possiamo ci conoscere meglio. (Ha ha ha, well, I did my best. It's been a few years since Italian class and I never was that great at it.)

Friending can be damned awkward, don't you think? There are such diverse views across LJ about what a friends list means, and it's hard to know what to expect when people don't tell you their policy on their userinfo page or another easily visible place. (That was me being crabby and bossy, did you see?) In a few places I've seen people ask "Is it okay for me to friend you?" in an LJ comment and get no response. Not wanting to end up in this situation myself, I'm much more likely to say "I'm friending you, hope that's not a problem" or not say anything at all, especially if it's one of these types who doesn't always respond to comments. I put it on the unfriendly person to say something if she really doesn't want me around.

My question is though is this: does anyone actually object to being friended? I don't mean someone demanding to be friended back, but just a quiet "Hello, I'm reading." As long as everyone's of age, is there any reason not to want someone to add you to their reading list? Have you ever seen someone say no, or otherwise communicate that they don't want certain people to friend? And if not, where does this custom of asking for permission come from?

Comments

[semyaza.livejournal.com]

It's a matter of personal style. If I want to friend someone in my fandom, I just friend them. If it's someone outside the fandom, I may ask first or I may not. I look at the userinfo, read a few posts, and try to gauge what the user would prefer. I might wait until I've had time to leave a comment or two so they know who I am.

I used to want people to leave a comment on my LJ when they friended--not to ask permission but just to say hello and tell me why they'd friended me. I no longer care about that, although there are a few who've been on my flist since the summer of 2004 and I have no idea what they saw in my LJ. I'm curious, but I'd never ask. :D

I asked permission of someone recently and she didn't respond, so I took that as a 'no'. Asking and then friending before you've had an answer, or friending and then asking if it's okay, is a trifle bizarre.

[sophinisba]

Yes, I will say hello if they've made it clear that that's something they want. Usually that's a good thing to do anyway because it starts a conversation between us. It can sometimes be really weird though, especially if it's someone I've been reading since my lurking days, and I can put a lot of effort into post telling who I am and how much I've been affected by their fics, only to have the comment completely ignored.

I do friend and ask if that's okay, or rather I friend and then say, "Let me know if it's not okay," because I just can't understand anybody saying no. If they were to tell me know then I would probably just keep reading their public posts anyway but in a more silent, stalkerish type way. If that's what they prefer than I'm gonna force them to say so, and I don't feel bad about the awkwardness of that because, really, they're just being weird.

Yeah, I said I was feeling moody. :)

[shirebound]

I'm thrilled and honored when someone friends me. (I don't automatically friend everyone back, and I've friended some folks who've never friended me back. Which is fine. We all have to choose what posts we want to read in the limited time we have.) I do tend to let folks know when I'm friending them, but I don't "ask", and I don't need anyone to "ask" to friend me. Come one, come all! Just be prepared to hear a lot about hobbits.

:D

[sophinisba]

That would be pretty funny, if someone friended you and then started complaining, "What's all this talk about hobbits?! I thought this was going to be a journal about zombies and space aliens!"

And I agree that we all get to decide whether or not to friend back. I suppose if someone felt differently then that might be a reason to ask them for permission. But again, I think that would be silly.

[baranduin.livejournal.com]

I just go ahead and friend someone without asking/commenting unless I see something on their LJ info page that says something specific about how they like to see it done.

Myself, I don't care about asking or whatever though I don't friend back automatically. Am particularly sensitive to age issues since my LJ has quite a bit of adult material, which is why I say something about it on my info page.

[sophinisba]

I need to put something about age in my userinfo as well. I didn't at first because I wasn't writing slash. But I'm starting to write some more adult stuff lately, and anyway I link to it all the time. I hesitate because I can't figure out quite how to phrase it. Truth is, I wish I'd had slash when I was sixteen. But if I were a mom with a sixteen-year-old daughter then I probably wouldn't want her looking at it. :)

[gamerchick.livejournal.com]

I never mind if anybody friends me, and I only refuse to friend them back if they're an obvious troll or if they're a student or potential student of mine (since I do talk a lot about teaching in my friends only entries). But I think people say no because a lot of people talk about pretty personal stuff in their locked entries, and some people have been burned in the past by trusting people they shouldn't have. I've never really had that experience, and if i had, maybe I'd be more naive, but as it is I'm pretty open about who I let read my stuff anyway. The way I see it, things that are really personal don't ever get written about in LJ anyway just because I feel weird about putting it there, so it's not hurting anything for them to be there.

That said, some people are real douchebags about getting friended by people they don't "approve" of or something. The worst experience I ever had on LJ was when I friended someone I didn't know offline but who I thought was interesting, read his journal for a long, and finally got up the nerve to comment on one of his entries. After I did, the next entry was an obvious dig at my journal, talking about how "somebody" had friended him and commented and he went to "their" journal and realized that they were a horrible, shallow person who didn't understand what the world was really like but would come around eventually to see things the way they really were (i.e. the way he saw them). Talk about condescending. But then he went crazy (literally) and lost all his RL friends for being a jerk so I was vindicated in the end.

[gamerchick.livejournal.com]

Oh and I forgot to mention that this was immediately after being re-contacted by my abusive ex-boyfriend for the first time in 3 years, who wanted me to forgive him for what he did, and I eventually realized that I couldn't do it and stood up for myself to him for the first time in my entire life, all of which was written about in my journal. So he was seeing some (for me) pretty profound stuff and concluding that despite all of it I was a silly little girl who would never be as enlightened as him. Dickweed. Yeah, I guess I'm in a mood too.

[sophinisba]

Well, what's important is that you won. That guy sounds like an asshole and that situation awful. Sometimes it's really hard to know before you friend somebody and/or they friend back though, especially if they have a lot of f-locked content on their journals.

And yes, about not wanting students to friend. With me, it's that I don't want this journal to be recognizable as mine should a real life friend happen to come across it. The effect, which is kind of funny to me, is that all the porn and other indications of my pathetic obsession with Elijah Wood are right there in the public posts, while the innocent stuff like school and rockclimbing is all locked up. For the most part it's about keeping the whole hobbit porn identity secret from the people I get to interact with in real life, but then you and R. are just crazy accepting people, so I've stopped worrying about what kinds of secrets I reveal to you. God though, I still live in fear that someone from my family will find out about this thing. *shudders*

I have this on my info page:

[trianne.livejournal.com]

Friends: You don't have to ask to friend me, though I do tend to wait and see how a journal is before I friend it back - it saves us both paaain. And just when you forgot why you friended me in the first place, you'll suddenly realise out of the blue that you can see all these weird locked entries about debauchery and smut and stuff. I lie, there's mostly just stuff.
LJs with no entries will not be friended, naturally :) Long entries without lj-cuts will probably lead to unfriending (sorry, but lj-cut is our friend). I am fascinated by Elijah, so that's mostly what you will get if you friend me, along with the occasional crack fic and draft of the serials I am writing...
Basically, I don't mind anyone crazylovely enough to friend me and they certainly don't have to ask - I find that whole asking thing first quite absurd. I very rarely ever friend first - I have this weird mentality where I cannot abide to be thought of as intruding somewhere. I don't regard others who friend *me* that way, but I just have always worried about going where I'm not wanted. I don't automatically reciprocate, however, though I do check back and occasionally then friend back - the person probably thinks it very odd. Anyway, that's my take on it.

Re: I have this on my info page:

[sophinisba]

Yes, and I love that you go into such detail about it all on your userinfo page. gentlehobbit and claudia do a good job with that too. It's helpful, I think for newbies especially, to know not to take it personally. There are a few people whose journals I had friended for months without hearing anything back from them before I finally saw a post explaining that they keep their f-lists very small so they can devote enough attention to each person on them, but that others are always welcome to friend or to comment. Goodness, would I have liked to know that earlier. Other people just use their f-lists as ways to keep track of reading and don't think of it in terms of friendship at all, and that too is good to know before one enters into contact with them.

[suzy-74.livejournal.com]

Friending is hard. I always ask permission. I want the person I'm friending know why I want to friend and yes, I want to know if it's ok for that person. There are people that has not answered my plea, so I haven't friended them. I would feel too awkward being there if they don't want to talk to me.

But that's me... I need some sort of confirmation that I'm not intruding. I don't mean I have to be frinded back, just that it's ok that I read their journals. I have never seen anyone say no to anybody. But not answering could be a polite no? I really don't know.

I don't have a policy on my info-page. Hadn't cross my mind that I would need it actually. But I have a few that has friended me without asking and I usually friend back right away, but it depends on if I've seen the person before. I think it's nice to get new friends.

[sophinisba]

But if they don't want you to read, why are they making public posts?

And I wouldn't necessarily assume that if someone doesn't respond to your question it means they don't want you there. Some people don't get LJ comments mailed to them and some people are distracted or lazy and, well, some people are just unfriendly. I have some unfriendly people friended because I like their fics. But of course if it makes you uncomfortable then it's probably best not to have the posts sitting their on your f-list reminding you of the fact that they never welcomed you.

But again I say distracted. There are some writers I e-mailed back when I was lurking and who never wrote back, and that made me feel bad. But later I've friended their journals and they've turned out to be perfectly nice.

But I know what you mean about friending being hard, especially if you do set up those rules for yourself that you won't do it without permission or even just that you need to introduce yourself and tell them why you're doing it. Sometimes it's someone whose fics you've read for so long and it's just really difficult to put into a comment how much their fic has meant to you without sounding like a crazy fan. :)

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

I think it's a very bizarre thing, this having to ask to friend someone because really, it's no skin off the person's back if you have friended them. But then some people are very, very strange, hehe.

I often friend someone and then comment in something to let them know I'm alive and there. I figure because I'm such a sparkling and fun and witty person (hehehe) that they will always friend me back. Well, of course not everyone recognizes perfection in personality (har, can you tell I'm in a goofy mood?). Then I figure they're just busy or just want a very specifically tailored list or they're snobbish (hey and nothing wrong with that, as long as you're willing to admit it) or somehow my reputation has preceded me and they're very, very frightened of me :D. Then I'll usually quietly unfriend after a time because I'm an all or nothing person and I figure if I'm not good enough for that person, then they're not good enough for me.

I don't friend everyone who friends me until they interact with me for a few times. If they're commenting on my stories and telling me how wonderful I am how and why they came to know me, then I'm more likely to friend them. If their journals are empty or if they seem very very young, then I'm not likely to friend them back, ever. Come to think of it, flattery is the very best way to get to my flist, lol! Tell me how brilliant a writer I am and ... LOL! (okay, I'm goofy, spent too much time at the beach today).

[sophinisba]

Well, of course being told how wonderful one is makes for good reason to believe that the friender in question is intelligent and has good taste!

It's a difficult situation though, because sometimes (and I'm not talking about you, so don't you dare think that) one likes someone for their personality, the way they comment, the way the contribute to the community, and because one has friends and interests in common, and yet one doesn't read that person's fic, either because it's about a pairing that one isn't interested in, or because it's just not one's favorite style. That makes it very awkward to introduce oneself and explain the friending! Will the new friendee be offended that one keeps saying how much one likes their journal but failing to comment on the fic? Ah, the uncertainties and awkward situations of fandom!

On another subject, I still remember how excited I was when you decided to friend me back. I was pretty new at the time and I had like five friends, and I e-mailed you to reveal that I had written that mpreg ficlet for Lily and that I had more Frodo-in-trouble fic in store. And you were so kind and welcoming! *nostalgic*

I like that you explain your policy on your info page. I wish everybody would do that. *very subtle*

[gentlehobbit.livejournal.com]

I have no problem being friended by people in general. It always feels like a compliment that they have decided that my LJ is interesting enough for them to add to their list.

The only time I might feel awkward is if, upon perusing the person's LJ, I find nastiness, swearing and material that for whatever reason makes me uncomfortable and alarmed. However, the Internet is public, and as long as there is no nastiness in the comments in my LJ, then there is very little to be said about the whole thing! And so far, I haven't really experienced anything nasty in my LJ. I've been fortunate. :) I feel very comfortable with the people I interact with.

I have been one to ask permission. Perhaps that has been somewhat irrelevant if you consider friending as a kind of "subscribing". Again, the Internet is a public place and not a private party. On the other hand, asking permission does sometimes open up communication, or allows you (if there is a response) to see how the other person views your presence. If there is no response, then I tend to consider that as a 'no' or, if not a no, then a lack of encouragement. That tends to put me off a little unless, for some reason, I really really want to subscribe to that journal and am content with no interaction whatever.

I suppose it all comes back to -- is friending an establishing of some kind of relationship (trivial or otherwise), or is it a simple, emotionless subscription to a kind of updated newsletter. From what I've experienced, it is a mixture of the two, and any given LJ is going to be considered in a different light by its "creator". However, at least among the people I have "subscribed" to, it tends towards the relationship side rather than the subscription side.

And so I ask permission. But I don't expect to *be* asked permission! :) Again, I taking people's friending me as a compliment.

[sophinisba]

And so I ask permission. But I don't expect to *be* asked permission!

I'm that way with a lot of things. That is, I friend almost everybody back (though I do have some of the same reservations you do, too much swearing or too much nastiness) but I don't want at all to put pressure on people to friend me back, because I get that people have all kinds of different perspectives on what that means.

I won't ask for permission to friend though, especially if it's from someone who's rather lax about responding to comments. (And by the way, I apologize for leaving your alone for a week. There's been, I don't know, stuff.) I'd be afraid that they'd ignore me just because they're in the habit of ignoring people they don't know, and not because they actually want me to go away.

Now, some might say, why would I want to be friends with someone as unfriendly as that? But I don't actually want to be buddy-buddy with everyone on my list. I want to be friends with you. Other people I just want to be a reader and a fan of, and if the feeling's not mutual then that's fine.

Thanks, by the way, for friending me back. :)

[notabluemaia.livejournal.com]

Interesting question. Just today I asked someone I don't know at all for some advice on a story - I had been referred to her by a mutual friend, and made a point of introducing myself on her lj, and also told her that I'd friended her (her public posts were intriguing and thoughtful).

I leave a short note when I friend someone (unless the friends list is so huge that my addition is unlikely ever to matter, or to become personal) to introduce myself and to let them know that I'm there, and perhaps to initiate some conversation. (I did that recently with you, and with Gentlehobbit - and am so glad to meet both of you) On my own lj, I invite people to comment in an introductory post and to let me know they're there; I usually friend back if they do so, or if I see them on my flist (and find that it's not an empty journal, and that it doesn't appear to be a juvenile).

The 'flist' doesn't seem so personal that I take offence if people readjust theirs and bump me, though if there's been interaction it's nice to know why. But people move on, and I'm not easily offended.

Thanks for the discussion. Hmm. I wonder if my userpage and intro give enough info to be welcoming and clear?

[sophinisba]

Oh, your userinfo is plenty clear, and I just love that entry you have posted at the top of your journal. It is so welcoming and just makes a person feel good to come by. It made me really happy when you friended me (and made me feel a little silly for not having friended you before).

If theirs no "friending policy" on someone's page I usually decide whether to say something and introduced myself based on how I see the new person treating others. There are some writers, I suppose especially over in lotrips country, whose stories I really enjoy a lot but who aren't as interested in interacting with their readers or other fans. I'm still going to friend them because I want to keep up with their fics, but there's no real reason to say hello if I know that doesn't matter to them, and if I know they won't be interested in reading my journal.

[mariole.livejournal.com]

Thanks for posting this topic. I never know what to do about friending either. I rarely get it right, because everyone seems to have their own policy. I've friended people and had them say, "What the hey?" or I asked other people and felt like a doofus.

Anyway, I updated my userinfo to be clear on what works for me. Friend away, but I rarely friend back. About once a year, like now, I get a gap in my schedule, and I like to look at the journals of people who've friended me. But I won't add them if 1) they post too much chatty or nonfandom stuff 2) they focus on RP fics or people 3) they come across as disturbed 4) their opinions and mine are wildly opposed, or they're very crude, and I just don't want that to show up on my flist. Or other reasons.

I don't want the overhead of setting up filters--I tried to sort it out once, and it seemed highly complicated. So I keep my flist small, to people I read regularly, and just snoop around in other people's journals as I have time. I figure it's easier not to friend, and just pop into a journal on a rec, than to have friended someone and then drop them, because some people take that quite personally. Again, just no way to know!

[sophinisba]

It is one of the great mysteries of LJ for me! So many different opinions! But did any of the "What the hey" people actually tell you to go away, or did they just want you to say hi and introduce yourself?

Did I ever tell you that back when I was lurking I used to read your f-list? That feels so stalkerish to say now, but it was just the easiest thing at the time. I was at your journal every day anyway checking for chapter updates and then I would look at your f-list to keep up with what was going on in the community. And it's how I found out about a lot of people I wouldn't have known otherwise.

I have a filter that I use fairly often for posting about personal stuff. I don't feel any guilt about that but I understand that it's not for everybody. And I haven't really figured out how to get them to work for reading, or decided if that's something I'm comfortable with. So a policy like yours seems completely reasonable to me, especially when so many people have friended you to keep up with your fics but don't have much in common with you beyond that. And arrgh, unfriending is awkward as all get-out.

[harukameko.livejournal.com]

This is such an interesting topic because so many people on lj have such different feelings about it. I personally have mine set up that my fics are public, but everything else is flocked. I realize some people come to my journal just to read my fics and that's fine with me so I try to be courteous to them by making my fics public so they don't have to jump through loads of stupid quizzes and real life stuff. Back when I first joined lj back in 2001, I used to always think when I wasn't friended back that either that person didn't like me, thought something was wrong with me, etc. Now of course, I have several people friended who haven't friended me back and that's okay with me now that I've gotten older. I realize that sometimes rl gets in the way or you just have to pick and choose.

Anyway, I almost always ask to friend someone, mostly because 1. I've never said anything to them before and I want to introduce myself. 2. I've been reading their journal, but am very shy in just friending their journal without their permission. 3. It's my way of trying to be friendly.

[sophinisba]

It does make for a nice chance to be friendly and introduce oneself. But sometimes that can get difficult too. Like, sometimes their fics have had a huge effect on you and that can be really hard to explain, and occasionally you do go and explain the whole thing and feel really exposed, and then the author never actually responds to your comment, either because she didn't see it or she's just not that interested in you and your kinks. That can leave you feeling awfully exposed and still without permission to friend.

I usually lock personal posts too, but that's not so much about protecting my personal secrets from other fans as trying not to be identifiable as me in my public posts. That is, if someone I know from real life happens to stumble upon my journal, I want them to just see a random weirdo who thinks hobbits are sexy, and not be able to recognize me. This makes me a little sad because I'd like, for instance, to mention more of my interests and tell more about myself on my userinfo page so that lotr fans who stopped by could know a little more about me before deciding whether to friend. Oh well.

[slipperieslope.livejournal.com]

I just really feel the idea of 'friending' should be mutual... it makes me horribly uncomfortable to even 'friend' someone without asking and then to ask, get the OK and not be friended back... I feel insulted, I guess. I mope and let some time go by and then unfriend them. And then I feel really immature.

I almost prefer the BNFs who don't 'friend' anyone to their public journal or fic only journals that have a policy of not friending back.

*le sigh*

I maintain if lj had just not called it 'friending' it would have been such a different issue altogether for me : (

[sophinisba]

I maintain if lj had just not called it 'friending' it would have been such a different issue altogether for me : (

Yeah, it would make a huge difference. And I know there are folks who are made uncomfortable by the term friend and would prefer that it be called a reading list or a subscription list or whatever, and it's mostly out of deference to that point of view that I'm more likely to refer to my list as my "f-list" than my "friends list". I know it's a tiny difference, but for me there's less of a sense of obligation to it. It just means so many different things to different people. To me it's several things. There are people on my list like you, whom I actually think of as friends. We comment on each other's posts (or I would comment on yours if you'd post more) whether or not they're strictly fandom related. That's my Friends list. Then there are other people I have friended just because I want to keep up with their fics. And there are some that are in between, including a few (just a few) who don't have me friended because they like to keep their own lists small but who have been really welcoming and encouraging in other ways, so that I actually manage to feel relatively comfortable commenting on their posts, fic-related or not.

It's tricky. And I sigh with you. I don't know, I put in my userinfo that I won't be offended if someone doesn't friend back and I usually am not (especially with the rps people), but there are still a couple cases that have made me sad. I try not to care but I do. :(

[layne67.livejournal.com]

No, I dont think anyone really object to being friended. They would have made their ljs private with specific instructions on dropping a line to them first! Or f-lock their posts if they only want specific people to read them. And no, I've never come across people that say no to being friended. Being ignored, yes, ( or maybe they missed my "hello" comments ) but outright "nos", not yet. But I friended them anyway even when they dont friend back because I find their ljs interesting.

Asking permission is courtesy. But I do have people who friended me without saying anything. I'd usually check out their ljs and if they seem okay I'd friend them back.

[sophinisba]

I suppose there are a lot of situations in real life too where we ask "may I" do something out of politeness, not because one actually expects to be turned down but because there's just this formula that's learned and repeated. I might be at someone's apartment and say, "Is it okay if I use your bathroom?" But I would think they were pretty weird if the said no. :)

Being ignored is really no fun. In real life, in LJ.

Thank you

[janira11.livejournal.com]

Thank you, you made me happy.I want friends,real life friends(they are few and I am sorry, usually it is hard to find a real life friend when you move away from your hometown,I am from Palermo and now I am in Milano and then it is hard to find someone who knows about slash,oh yeah,they don't know anything...only my friend estelanui and antonella(both in Italy and both wonderful girls) know about my passion for hobbits,kings and elves(g).I am happy to have a live journal,I don't have any friending rules,I want to be friend with everyone who share my love for Frodo.Sometimes when i post ,well I try to be less passionate,well maybe I want to say something more rudely,maybe I would like to vent, to talk about my problems...then I think, maybe is not right,I don't want to annoy people with my problems.It is a kind of shyness,pride,fear to be refused...some wounds from my real life(g).
Ok,I wanted only to say Thanks,I love you and all my online friends...Thank you to welcome me.It is touching.Since now I pray you to excuse my mistakes in English and my being so informal...(my Teacher Shannon in San Diego always said" Maria you can't write a formal letter" I explained her that this is my way in English and in Italian,I am not a formal person, I am quite wild.(bg).Grazie , tanto amore dalla mia Italia.

Re: Thank you

[sophinisba]

Well, Frodo love (or Elijah love, or Pippin love, or something similar) is what we're all here for, so it's really all right not to have rules. I just like to know what people's feelings are about friending before I get in contact with them.

LJ is wonderful, I think, and I like that it gives us such flexibility about how much to make public and how much to lock or filter. I don't have any real life friends who share my passion for hobbits either, and I'm so very happy to have found this community. I'm glad to have you here too. Ciao, bella!

[lilybaggins.livejournal.com]

I have to say that I'm a real milquetoast when it comes to friending and unfriending. I don't like to friend anyone first, I almost always feel obligated to friend back even if I don't know the person, and I hate defriending and use filters, mostly.

I wish I had more backbone!

I personally always feel I don't comment enough on people's LJs, or that my comments are shallow and stupid. But the truth is, I honestly just can't find the time---not if I want to also have time to read or write fanfic.

I started catching up on my flist at about 8:30... it's now nearly 10:00 and I've STILL got at least 60 entries to skim. It just takes time, lots of time.

[sophinisba]

I do more often friend people first, since I read a lot more than I write. I'm more likely to introduce myself if I'm dealing with dealing with hobbit people, because I feel a bit more like a part of this community and I see it as somewhat more, well, hobbity, and friendly and community oriented. Then I also read a lot of rps (about hobbit authors) but I get the impression from a lot of those authors that they're happy to be friended but don't feel any obligation to friend back, and that's fine with me most of the time.

The f-list is amazingly time-consuming, you're quite right, and that's another reason why I don't begrudge anyone choosing not to friend back or choosing to use a reading filter. I just like to be aware of their policy ahead of time so I know not to take things personally.

And backbone, I know! I just can't bear to unfriend anybody, even if their entries make me consistently unhappy! One just never knows how the other person is going to take it.