question about Mary Sues

[sophinisba]

I think I like posting questions about fic even more than posting fic. There’s all the excitement of getting comments without that icky vulnerable feeling. Here’s one I’ve been wondering about for rather longer than I’ve been on LJ:

When, in the course of writing a fanfic, it becomes necessary to introduce an original female character who is a nice person, what strategies can be used to avoid Mary Sueism?

Some answers that have occurred to me:

1. Don't let her have sex with any of our hot guys.
2. Don't let her resolve all the conflicts within the story.
3. Don't make her too much like yourself.
4. Do a good job telling her story so that she will become an engaging character in her own right.
5. Don't tell too much of her story because she'll end up taking over the fic.
6. Sophie, you're far too inexperienced a fanfic writer to be taking on an OFC. Don't you realize they're dangerous? Either find a way to make this fic work with canon characters (and work hard at keeping them close to canon) or set it aside for a time and come back when you've had a little more practice.

I mostly read based on other people's recs, so I don't know that I've ever read an actual Mary Sue fic, although I certainly composed a lot of them in my head when I was younger, and I've read a few parodies. A while back I was trying to figure out what to do with a particularly troublesome young lady and took a look at the Mary Sue Litmus Test: LOTR Adaptation, which told me I was fine. But I’m still a bit concerned.

Thoughts?

ETA: This question does not have to do with the fic I've been posting about Frodo in jail. No worries there, we will not be veering into the tragic but inspiring life story of Hank's girlfriend Daisy. Thank you.

Comments

[sophinisba]

You know who I love? I love Marigold Gamgee as written in Devoted. You do original characters wonderfully, Mariole, I'm so glad to have your advice on this. I really should have put this question up before I wrote the fic (dammit), but anyway the discussion will give me a lot to think about while revising.

It's not so much the projection thing that I'm having trouble with. I think it's perfectly valid to put aspects of yourself in your characters, but this woman is really barely similar to me at all. It's more the tragic past/taking over the story thing. I felt the plot demanded bringing her in, but right away she wanted to be important, to tell her own story and have everybody care! It's maddening! I've had to keep hacking her part down but I just can't stand to get rid of her. It's very strange. Probably not that big a deal, but I don't seem to be able to stop looking over my shoulder.

[mariole.livejournal.com]

Hmm. When that happens to me, I try to listen really hard. What is the character trying to say? What is the "juice" that's fueling this, what is trying to get out?

Because I don't think a person ever really writes a story, although we try. I think the best stories just come from somewhere, and it's up to the author to type as fast as she can and get the heck out of the way to let the story come through. So, what's trying to come through? It might need to be its own story. Where is the "juice" in the other story, the one that's getting crowded out? You need to find its life pulse, and get it beating happily again.

Oh, heck. This thing is all mysterious to me. I really have no idea how it happens. But I'm a big believer in, if it's not working, throw it completely away and start again. I have many old chapters that were false starts. After the story gets working again, I can sometimes see why they didn't work. But it's a mystery. I just say, well, that's not working. What would happen if... and approach it a completely different way. But everyone has their own way of working. Mine is the scrap and rewrite method. Other people have their own tricks.

Thank you for the kind words about Marigold. I really don't know where she came from. I think in her case she was a reaction to Sam. We know very well what Sam is like. In a big family, people tend to fill roles. So who would Sam have as a confidant and friend in this big family, and how would she compliment his character? So she has hobbit sense but different hobbit sense than Sam; she's practical, but in different ways than Sam. They're the younger kids offering each other support against the older sisters; they might squabble, but they're always there for each other. Hmm; it's interesting and scary to think this out consciously! Great topic.

[sophinisba]

I'm a big believer in, if it's not working, throw it completely away and start again.

No!!!! *clutches notebooks and notebook computer tightly* You mustn't take it away! It's 30,000 words and it's *done* and it's precious to me!!!

But everyone has their own way of working.

*calms down somewhat* Actually, I have done some fairly brutal cuts and revisions already, and I did try rewriting it without her in it, and liked it less. So I don't think starting over is the answer, at least not for this particular situation. But I like your advice about listening to what the characters want to say, and also Lily's about using OCs to tell us something about the canon characters Frodo. I'll keep all that in mind when I'm revising this and also when working on another fic I have bits and pieces of (which features some Marigold and rather a lot of Rosie).

But it all is mysterious, and for me it's especially mysterious when I'm looking at my own writing, like I lose all capacity to judge whether it's working or not. I do know that I enjoyed writing this one a lot, so that's something to hold on to anyway. :-)

[mariole.livejournal.com]

I can't judge, either. I'm too close to it. That's why I'm a big believer in beta, or first reader, or critique group. It's amazing the things that are perfectly clear to me that never end up on the page, only in my head.

I wasn't trying to suggest you scrap the whole fic-- although that's what Tolkien always did with LOTR. CS Lewis said he had two responses to criticism: he either ignored it, or started over from the beginning. In your case, I was thinking of just starting the troubling chapters over again. But it sounds like you're already doing that. I hope other people have had more useful suggestions. Good luck! I really like this fic!

[sophinisba]

Oh, this all has to do with a different fic, one I haven't posted any of yet; Claudia's taking a look at it now. And I'm seeking more general advice for other things I might want to write in the future.

"A Brief Adventure" is not done yet and has been stalled for a while, which is a little troubling in itself. On the bright side, it has no looming potential Mary Sues. Kind of a lot of OCs maybe, but none of them threatening to hijack the story. It's so nice to know you're enjoying it so far!