question about Mary Sues

[sophinisba]

I think I like posting questions about fic even more than posting fic. There’s all the excitement of getting comments without that icky vulnerable feeling. Here’s one I’ve been wondering about for rather longer than I’ve been on LJ:

When, in the course of writing a fanfic, it becomes necessary to introduce an original female character who is a nice person, what strategies can be used to avoid Mary Sueism?

Some answers that have occurred to me:

1. Don't let her have sex with any of our hot guys.
2. Don't let her resolve all the conflicts within the story.
3. Don't make her too much like yourself.
4. Do a good job telling her story so that she will become an engaging character in her own right.
5. Don't tell too much of her story because she'll end up taking over the fic.
6. Sophie, you're far too inexperienced a fanfic writer to be taking on an OFC. Don't you realize they're dangerous? Either find a way to make this fic work with canon characters (and work hard at keeping them close to canon) or set it aside for a time and come back when you've had a little more practice.

I mostly read based on other people's recs, so I don't know that I've ever read an actual Mary Sue fic, although I certainly composed a lot of them in my head when I was younger, and I've read a few parodies. A while back I was trying to figure out what to do with a particularly troublesome young lady and took a look at the Mary Sue Litmus Test: LOTR Adaptation, which told me I was fine. But I’m still a bit concerned.

Thoughts?

ETA: This question does not have to do with the fic I've been posting about Frodo in jail. No worries there, we will not be veering into the tragic but inspiring life story of Hank's girlfriend Daisy. Thank you.

Comments

[singeaddams.livejournal.com]

Don't describe her extreme, unusual beauty in loving detail.

Don't dwell on how 'different' she is from the norm.

Don't go into her tragic/unusual past, especially if it has no bearing on your plot. ABSOLUTELY don't explore how 'unappreciated' she was as a child.

Keep her in the background at first then, if the audience likes her, bring her forward gradually in drabbles and one shots. Don't let her overwhelm the lead hobbits/elves/ents/whatever.

Don't give her a defining physical/emotional/mental disfigurement to make her more 'real.'

Don't give her magical powers.

Wow, the list goes on and on and on!

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

I have to say, I laughed and giggled at the Litmus test. :-D

I know the lady of which you speak, and like I said, I'm going to continue to keep that in mind as I read on (yep, I WILL get one of your chapters out to you today...yesterday ended up being really crazy for me).

[celandine-g.livejournal.com]

I vote for #4. As a writer, I think you should have the "right" to craft a story the way you see it. I've never understood the hoopla and sheer terror about MarySue's. It seems to me to be someone's personal phobia blown way out of proportion.

I mean, if a story is obviously a teeny bopper, shallow little fantasy, one can reject it on that basis alone and forget it. But if you have written a decent, engaging, adult story with a female OFC who is interesting and makes sense, then I don't see why anyone should label it as something terrible--at least not to the point where a writer is afraid to even do it, lest they be lambasted.

But I understand what you mean and hope you can write your character without too much concern. Good luck. :)

[mews1945.livejournal.com]

I blithely add OCs to my stories, and if somebody squints enough to see a Mary or a Larry Sue, I guess I'm guilty. I loved the Litmus test. Very funny.

[lilybaggins.livejournal.com]

I have nothing against OFCs, to a point, if I know that's what I'm going to be reading and I'm not taken with it by surprise. To me, an OFC is best when like vanilla flavoring: a little bit can enhance the rest, but add too much, and it overshadows the entire thing. I'm differentiating, of course, between regular Middle-earth based OFCs and "girl dropped into Middle-earth from present day" sorts of fics. The latter I don't think can be done well very often except for parody. It can be done well, however, occasionally.

For example, I've read some of an ff.net fic, based on recs, about two teenagers dropped into Middle-earth, and I was very impressed with how the author gave us a look at how different life would truly be according to social norms and cultures and that sort of thing. This fic was NOT a romance, though, which helped it tremendously. And then there's Ariel's The Gift of Illuvatar, in which an OFC cares and falls for Frodo, but it's written so skillfully and beautifully and you feel so sorry for her that you can't help but love the fic.

It just completely depends on the characterization. Of course I'd avoid the blatant Mary Sues in the teeny-bopper fics, but some others can be okay. There's a story in which Aragorn is ill and found by a poor woman who falls for him . . . she's very much not a Mary Sue and the story is well-written. And then of course, there are the completely NON Mary-Sueish types of OFCs, such as older women who fulfill a motherly type of role or evil antagonists.

My own personal difficulty with reading OFCs, besides the fact that I'd generally always rather read about the canon characters I love---is that often, the OFC takes over the story. Now, if I know from the start that the story will feature a prominent OFC, I'm okay with it. I can choose to read or not to read. But I can't tell you how many stories start out with minor OFCs and next thing, the OFC is the heart of the story---a "bait and switch."

I realize writers engage in a sort of role-play when writing---I do that with Frodo, even. He is my Mary Sue in many ways. So I don't care if writers put their own persona into an OFC--how would I know that, anyway? It would be too subtle to pick up most of the time.

As for h/c scenes, OFCs rarely melt my butter when caring for our heroes. From a completely personal standpoint I'd always rather see Aragorn caring for Frodo than an OFC---but that's personal taste, only! And seeing OFCs receive care from canon characters does nothing for me---I prefer OFCs to sort of "reflect" the canon characters and shed more light on them, not the other way. If an OFC enhances the canon characters, I can like her---if she overshadows them, I usually will stop reading.

That's my ramble for the day! :)

[mother2012.livejournal.com]

When I wrote Frozen in Time, I was a real newcomer to fanfic, and didn't realize the dangers of the Mary Sue. There have been arguments over whether Ellen is a Mary Sue or not. The basis of the argument seems to come down to whether the reader feels like any OFC is a Mary Sue.

Most people liked the story. This may be in part because I started the story with the OFC, rather than bringing her in after. In other words, people probably weren't tempted to read very far if they didn't like the way the story was going. I eventually started posting it with the warning that if you didn't like the OFC in the first two chapters, you most likely wouldn't like the fic.

Personally, I think one thing that allowed it to work was that there were a lot of OCs; not just the 'heroine' through whose eyes the story developed, but five of the seven characters.

Should the OFC be like you or not like you? I've heard it said that any character you write is a facet of yourself. Just make sure she's a 'real' person; an interesting character - not too wonderful, not too stupid.

[mariole.livejournal.com]

I think this "Mary Sue" business has gotten a little out of hand. I think most writers steal or adapt personal traits or those of people they know to add verisimilitude to their fictional creations. If the character is a girl, she will have some traits in common with you, be it only basic gender issues. The question to be asking is, how does this character serve the story? What does she add? Is she essential? Are her attitudes believable? Fit with the story/theme? Basically, the same questions you would ask about any character or scene. Having her do triple duty (humor + love story + plot advancement, for example) is even better. I'm not saying she's superhuman; I'm saying she has a valid part to play in the story.

Now, once you've got her, who is she? What was her family background? What are her nueroses? Bad or good habits? Favorite color? All that stuff that makes a character feel real. Because it's fiction, the traits you choose to flesh out in her will be relevant to the story. For example, if Frodo is in prison, having her come from an oppressive background, or (alternatively) one totally incapable of identifying with his situation, will give her more of a motivation/conflict to get involved. I'm very big on motive. What goes on between the ears is what makes a character come alive. Am I just blabbing? Igore me. Write her, enjoy her, and don't worry about any rules. You can't write well when you're looking over your shoulder. Cheers.