Sophinisba Solis (
sophinisba) wrote2005-10-16 02:14 pm
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question about Mary Sues
I think I like posting questions about fic even more than posting fic. There’s all the excitement of getting comments without that icky vulnerable feeling. Here’s one I’ve been wondering about for rather longer than I’ve been on LJ:
When, in the course of writing a fanfic, it becomes necessary to introduce an original female character who is a nice person, what strategies can be used to avoid Mary Sueism?
Some answers that have occurred to me:
1. Don't let her have sex with any of our hot guys.
2. Don't let her resolve all the conflicts within the story.
3. Don't make her too much like yourself.
4. Do a good job telling her story so that she will become an engaging character in her own right.
5. Don't tell too much of her story because she'll end up taking over the fic.
6. Sophie, you're far too inexperienced a fanfic writer to be taking on an OFC. Don't you realize they're dangerous? Either find a way to make this fic work with canon characters (and work hard at keeping them close to canon) or set it aside for a time and come back when you've had a little more practice.
I mostly read based on other people's recs, so I don't know that I've ever read an actual Mary Sue fic, although I certainly composed a lot of them in my head when I was younger, and I've read a few parodies. A while back I was trying to figure out what to do with a particularly troublesome young lady and took a look at the Mary Sue Litmus Test: LOTR Adaptation, which told me I was fine. But I’m still a bit concerned.
Thoughts?
ETA: This question does not have to do with the fic I've been posting about Frodo in jail. No worries there, we will not be veering into the tragic but inspiring life story of Hank's girlfriend Daisy. Thank you.
When, in the course of writing a fanfic, it becomes necessary to introduce an original female character who is a nice person, what strategies can be used to avoid Mary Sueism?
Some answers that have occurred to me:
1. Don't let her have sex with any of our hot guys.
2. Don't let her resolve all the conflicts within the story.
3. Don't make her too much like yourself.
4. Do a good job telling her story so that she will become an engaging character in her own right.
5. Don't tell too much of her story because she'll end up taking over the fic.
6. Sophie, you're far too inexperienced a fanfic writer to be taking on an OFC. Don't you realize they're dangerous? Either find a way to make this fic work with canon characters (and work hard at keeping them close to canon) or set it aside for a time and come back when you've had a little more practice.
I mostly read based on other people's recs, so I don't know that I've ever read an actual Mary Sue fic, although I certainly composed a lot of them in my head when I was younger, and I've read a few parodies. A while back I was trying to figure out what to do with a particularly troublesome young lady and took a look at the Mary Sue Litmus Test: LOTR Adaptation, which told me I was fine. But I’m still a bit concerned.
Thoughts?
ETA: This question does not have to do with the fic I've been posting about Frodo in jail. No worries there, we will not be veering into the tragic but inspiring life story of Hank's girlfriend Daisy. Thank you.
no subject
I'm not even sure I'm qualified to explain it... it's just my own personal opinion. I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of stories NEED OCs, including OFCs, to help fill in plotholes and such, especially gapfiller stories that take place pre-quest. Our nine Fellowship members can't do everything, after all, I guess. :)
So, if I'm reading a primarily Frodo story that does NOT revolve around a major OFC. I usually don't mind an OFC who crops up to help me appreciate Frodo more. Or who helps the other characters to appreciate him more. Maybe by looking after him, talking to him, falling for him, or just providing some conflict. But when she starts taking the other characters' attentions away from my Frodo and redirecting them onto herself, well . . .
Example: Frodo is kidnapped, and Aragorn and Sam are searching frantically for him. Ruffians mistreat him and terrible things ensue. Frodo, while captured, meets up with a young OFC---little more than child, so there's no romance---and becomes quite a father-figure to her during his horrible ordeal. Aragorn and Sam are still frantically searching.
All right, so far. I'm with the story, I'm pining for Aragorn to find Frodo and give him all the TLC he can handle. The OFC bothers me not--she's there to give Frodo moral support and get him through this.
Cut to many chapters later. Frodo is found, but somewhere along the way the OFC has really become a major focus of the story. So during Frodo's rescue and recovery, we're not really treated to Aragorn fretting over Frodo's hurts and ills and mental state---as he did during the first few chapters---as much as OMG, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO LITTLE FLORA-LILY NOW? We see little Flora-Lily's wounds being treated, but not Frodo's; we see little Flora-Lily winning Aragorn and Sam over with her cuteness, so that instead of sitting by Frodo's bedside and giving him enemas, Aragorn is instead putting wet towels on little Flora-Lily's pale brow. I've been waiting for my big pay-off---seeing Frodo rescued, but instead---I'm sitting there having to read about Flora-Lily in complete detail! I like her fine, but that's not why I started reading the story.
We get many long paragraphs of Aragorn and Sam worrying over Flora-Lily's health and emotional state and parentage and family. Meanwhile, Frodo is recovering but has almost been relegated to a secondary character, except for when he's worrying about Flora-Lily. The entire focus of the story has shifted. THAT is when I get pissy. :D
That's when I think an OFC has taken over, and I've seen it so many times. Now, I'm not saying Flora-Lily is a Mary Sue, for certain, but undying love and devotion on the part of all the canon characters toward an OFC meets the criteria for me.
I don't think all romance partners are Mary Sues, either. Romance does not a Mary Sue make. It's really just how believable a character is.
Writers love to write OFCs because they're a challenge, and they hope that readers will love and adore their OFCs as much as everyone else. But OFCs are a bit like other people's children: Few people love them as much as the writer herself.
This brings to mind the professional Pocket Books Star Trek novels. They started out very well and good and I loved quite a few of them, though they certainly had their share of Mary Sues! But somewhere along the beaten path, Pocket Books changed editors and suddenly, books were being published with Kirk and Spock as secondary characters and OCs and aliens and all getting the most attention. I quit reading them then, pretty much, and the general opinion among Internet fandom on some groups I lurked on was that they'd really lost their focus and appeal because of that.
no subject
"Writers love to write OFCs because they're a challenge, and they hope that readers will love and adore their OFCs as much as everyone else. But OFCs are a bit like other people's children: Few people love them as much as the writer herself."
I will think about this and write more to you tomorrow. Should really sleep now.
no subject
But yes, after that, when everybody starts worrying about Flora-Lily, I do get annoyed. Especially if it's like you say, a story that starts out being centered on Frodo and then forgets about him. How could anybody forget about Frodo?
All the same, like I said before, I can see how it could happen to an author even if she doesn't start out with that intention, especially if she's going along posting as she writes. Mariole said Fatty Bolger in Devoted got to be more of an important character partly because readers responded so well to him, but that was fine with all of us because all of Fatty's energy went into helping Frodo and Sam. It was lovely to watch! In your scenario, though, maybe Frodo's helping out Flora-Lily and some readers are leaving comments like OMG Flora-Lily is so cute I hope she will be ok! And the author gets to caring more and more about that. 'Cause lots of people have written stories of Frodo's kidnapping and rescue, but who else is going to tell poor Flora-Lily' story?
Rest assured, this is not something I'm planning to do. (How could I abandon Frodo?) I'm just saying, I can see the temptation.
no subject
I see the above scenario happen a lot... the reviewers squee over the OCs and then the author feels compelled to let them take over.